CrossFit Oakland

Better Living Through Chemistry.

See you all at the party-

Does this photo look familar?

http://crossfitboston.squarespace.com/wod/

Neal was digging it!

crop subsidies is one of the reasons

production, transport, ingredients (all cost less for a twinkie to be born; and after the uncool Twinkie defense in SF the blond sponge, nuclear survivng cake we love to hate-yet remember oh so well-went down like a toilet bowl being flushed. Or did it?

it's great to see annie's photo from the cert on the national site! get well soon, we miss you:)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/magazine/22wwlnlede.t.html?ex=1184558400&en=bbe0f6d2b56e3b3c&ei=5070

First off, we're comparing a product and commodity (Twinkie(R) vs Apple) and two modes of production (organic vs the Borg).

Not exactly apples to apples, pardon the pun, but still, you'd probably expect an apple to be cheaper than a blob of highly-engineered, high-GI Styrofoam; so we're already upside down.

It could be much worse. Just imagine how much cheaper Twinkies would be if we subtracted the marketing costs!

One factor leading to the disparity, I believe, is that modern food production techniques are much more efficient, controllable and predictable than growing something outside in a semi-natural environment.

Also, it's more expensive to grow anything organically--I believe due to the lack of pesticides, which ups your spoilage.

This is one of those scenarios where the total cost of consumption can't really be captured by simply looking at the price in the supermarket to the consumer.

Once costs such as prescriptions and medical care (for continual consumption of twinkies and other processed foodstuffs that can potentially lead to type-2 diabetes, CHD, cancer, stroke, and simply obesity) are taken into account, that twinkie ain't so cheap anymore.

And nice article, Jeff.

An organic apple is overpriced. Organic produce provides no benefit of any kind to the consumer or the environment. It is a truly amazing waste of money.

The FDA governs what foods can be called organic, yet states: "No distinctions should be made between organically and non-organically produced products in terms of quality, appearance, or safety."

Organic produce is not more nutritious, the genetic linage of the plant determines it's nutrition content. A plethora of studies have proved this.

Organic produce is not safer. The amount of pesticide residue in our food supply is infinitesimally small and has never been shown to pose any health risk of any kind. In fact natural molds that are inhibited by pesticides may pose a health risk in organic produce. In addition testing has shown that produce designated organic has just as much pesticide residue as that not so designated, and that fully 60% of all produce has no detectable residue.

Testing has also shown no difference in taste or appearance between organic and non-organic produce.

Buying organic produce does not help the environment. It is far too inefficient to make any difference. In addition, having to ship, say, organic apples, from 3000 miles away removes any possible positive effect on the environment.

If you want to keep wasting your money, buy organic.

"Scientific agriculture has provided Americans with the safest and most abundant food supply in the world. Agricultural chemicals are needed to maintain this supply. The risk from pesticide residue, if any, is minuscule, is not worth worrying about, and does not warrant paying higher prices." -Dr. Manfred Kroger, Ph.D. Professor of Food Science at The Pennsylvania State University

It's simple.

How much love and care does it take to stamp out a Twinkie?

Answer: 0

How much love care does it take to grow and nurture an organic apple to full ripeness?

Answer: More than it takes to grow a Twinkie.

Max, tell the farmer's who are dying from poisoning from pesticides that organic farming has no positive impact. this is a fact. ask anyone in the central valley.

however, "organic" is a term that's thrown around quite often and doesn't really mean that much anymore. i'll give you that much.

Max, tell the farmer's who are dying from poisoning from pesticides that organic farming has no positive impact. this is a fact. ask anyone in the central valley. it just so happens that these people are illegal mexican immigrants, so no one's making that much of a fuss about it.

however, "organic" is a term that's thrown around quite often and doesn't really mean that much anymore. i'll give you that much.

Oh, for goodness sake.

OK, lets talk organic and local. Then we have an argument. First off. Organic farming builds the soil health, helps the microorganisms work to maintain the health of the soil, then we have the bees, birds, worms, grazing and foraging animals etc, etc. that all do a job in keeping us fed with their contributions.

When we eschew petrochemical fertilizers and pesticides and farm in a responsible organic fashion, there is little to no leaching of excess nitrogen into the groundwater, water sheds, streams, lakes and oceans harming water supplies for all, fish, coral, etc, etc.

Plus we need to crop dust, ship the damn chemicals, develop new "Roundup Ready"pesticide resistant strains of seed as well as ones that are genetically sterile so that the farmers are beholden to the agro-corporations to provide their crop seed year after year. and the list goes on.

Let's just simplify the process and feed the soil, feed the people, keep it local, quit paving ever square inch of fertile land and grow some food, simply and ORGANICALLY. Backyards are a nice start- no where near good enough to feed the masses but an important grassroots step.

Go to the farmers markets and buy local, organic produce, meat and dairy products. I ain't saying that organic produce form Chile is a great idea because of the air travel involved. Doing our best to eat locally and organically can reduce the dependence on foreign oil, on which we all can agree is a good idea.

I am here to tell you that agricultural chemicals are the crack of the worlds food supply. It is working now but it is not a long term positive solution. The world's soil is becoming depleted. All of those vital minerals are running off into the oceans will be gone forever until we dredge them up from the ocean and put them back. I have worked the soil for 15 years and I KNOW what is up with how to keep plants healthy.

To think that we humans are not intrinsically connected to the rest of the planet's ecosystem and can ignore nature's proven methods is a big mistake in my estimation.

I guess all of those kipping pull-ups and beers combined to make me ornery enough to post tonight.

Thanks for the great re-re opening.

Jonathan: exposure to pesticides is an occupational hazard of modern agriculture. Following proper procedures can minimize the risk of such exposure. Your argument hold no weight for two reasons. One: The fact that farmers are exposed to danger does not mean that organic food holds any additional value: danger is part of life and cannot be entirely avoided. Should police stop making traffic stops because they might be killed in the course of such stops? Two: It is not possible to use organic farming to provide an adequate food supply. It would make more sense to focus on improved procedures and regulations governing pesticide use if the welfare of farmers is your primary concern.

Vanessa:

Your argument misses the point: organic methods are extremely inefficient and cannot adequately provide for the world's food needs. Also some modern methods of agriculture are MORE sustainable than organic farming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food#Sustainability

Hmmm,I am not sure I can get on that boat with you Max.
I'll have to do some more research on this. I'm not convinced that the world's food needs can't be met organically.

I wonder though, why our farmers are paid to NOT produce food through subsidies that keep third world countries' food prices artificially low.

I think perhaps, the elephant in the room might be human overpopulation and the house of cards we are living in (for instance: organic=unsustainable).

Max, you have a knack for stirring it up.

Maybe there is a non-organic peach that tastes like the fresh ones in the farmer's market, but I sure can taste the difference between one of those and one from Safeway. And don't get me started on tomatoes. Maybe local and fresh is the issue. The problem with agribusiness is that we usually get neither.

I'm supposed to take the FDA's word for it that non-organic stuff is just as good for me? Why do you think they even produce statements like that? It's because administrations like this one get strong-armed by industry lobbyists to protect their interests. And if you don't believe me, ask those guys in black trenchcoats that follow me to crossfit every morning and wait for me to come out.

On the other hand, I had an organic twinkie once, and it sucked. Totally unsustainable.